Will 2024 see a return to the office for remote workers?

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JEREMY MAGGS: Let’s finish our express half hour with this story, many companies are still battling to get employees to buy into the idea that they need to return to work after the Covid-19 interruption. One workplace expert believes that things are changing though as more organisations acknowledge the negative impact that fully remote working has had on morale and productivity.

That person is Norman Kretzmer, who is founder and chief executive officer of Contract Understanding; and is with me now on Moneyweb@Midday. Firstly, why is the return debate still relevant and if it is still relevant, what’s the impact then on corporate culture?

NORMAN KETZMER: Culture is something that is learned from watching people’s behaviour. Culture isn’t a document; culture isn’t something that you can learn from something written down. Culture you get from seeing how people around you behave, how your managers behave, and that’s how culture is inculcated into a business.

If people are sitting at home and just interacting via Teams or Zoom, that culture can’t possibly be taught. You can’t learn it by a remote call.

So I believe that you have to have some physical interaction, some actual presence in the office. It doesn’t have to be all the time in the office, but some presence in the office to actually inculcate a culture.

JEREMY MAGGS: Do you think we maybe are reaching the point where we can develop a hybrid working culture? In other words, something completely different to the actual physicality that you’re talking about?

NORMAN KETZMER: Ja, I think that it depends on the business of course, and it depends on the role, but certainly for many businesses, a hybrid business can work, which will obviously give rise to a particular culture. But you still have some actual presence in an actual office or in a location where you can learn from people. When I’m talking about learning, I’m not talking about learning the job, I’m talking about learning the culture, the behaviour.

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JEREMY MAGGS: So how then do you start to find the balance between in-office and the remote option?

NORMAN KETZMER: So what we did was we brought pretty much everybody back into the office about two years ago now. Then we slowly looked at the various roles and we let people work hybrid firstly a day a week, and then two days a week and depending on the role. So currently all customer-facing people work in the office every day, and other roles are in the office two or three times a week.

JEREMY MAGGS: Norman, obviously it made sense during the Covid era, but why do you think we’re still battling with this particular issue two, three years on?

NORMAN KETZMER: Well, I think that people enjoyed being at home to some degree. It allowed them some personal time, obviously people didn’t have to negotiate the traffic and a long commute. So obviously that’s an issue. But at the same point in time, some people have struggled at home as well because many people don’t have appropriate working space. There are interruptions from cleaners, pets, kids, and just being with your family all the time, it doesn’t do great for people’s relationship either.

Read: Don’t ask us to come to the office more — or we will quit, investors say

JEREMY MAGGS: We’ve got to the point now, I would imagine, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, where perhaps people have become too demanding in this respect, in wanting to work at home and companies have given up, they’ve become too complacent.

NORMAN KETZMER: I think that there’s a mixture of that. We’re finding that we certainly can hire people who are happy to come into the office. As I said, some people are actually delighted or relieved to come into the office at least sometime during the week. It depends on the role, certainly roles like software developers, we are in that space, like to work from home. But even those we have in the office, as I said, at least twice a week.

JEREMY MAGGS: So given that then, how can organisations ensure that remote or hybrid workers are given equal visibility and opportunity for progression, as compared to their in-office counterparts, without being prejudiced against?

NORMAN KETZMER: That’s a very interesting point that you raise. I actually saw an article, I think it was in the Washington Post, a survey in the United States that spoke about people being missed for promotion or people not getting the same bonuses if they aren’t being seen. That is a real problem, out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

If you are working remotely, do you get the same recognition as someone who is in the office? That is a real, real problem, and that’s one of the reasons why I believe that you have to have some in-office time.

JEREMY MAGGS: Final question. Does it ultimately not come down to pure measurement of productivity and if one or the other works, that’s the direction that you go?

NORMAN KETZMER: There’s more to running a business than just productivity. The reason for that is, is that if it’s just productivity, then everything can just be outsourced, and everyone is an independent contractor. In fact, many people working remotely or working from home seem to start acting like they’re independent contractors rather than taking on the culture of the business that they’re working for.